The stovepipe hat...

[Whistler]

Is it true that Lincoln bought the famous stovepipe
hat in a haberdashery along lower Broadway while in
New York City, to give his Cooper Union address,
February 27, 1860? Or did the hat make an
appearance earlier?...

[Old Movie Fan]

From everything I've seen and read, Lincoln used his hat as storage
for most of the papers he had with him while traveling from place to
place as a lawyer. In all pictures I've seen with a hat, they're the
same style.

This way, he always knew where his papers were at.

Big Lincoln History Fan,

Rich W

[Whistler]

Post by Old Movie Fan
In all pictures I've seen with a hat, they're the
same style.
This way, he always knew where his papers were at.

It was also on that visit to NYC that he sat for a
photo taken of him, by Matthew Brady, for the first
time, in his studio on Broadway, right off Bleecker St.
a few hours before he delivered his Cooper Union
address. Brady went on to photograph Lincoln
numerous times after that, while president.
It was a beardless Lincoln and that image was used
extensively throughout the campaign by newspapers,
cartoonists and artists, which became the face that
America got to know the candidate by...

[Old Movie Fan]

Since Lincoln's profession did require a certain amount of paperwork
when compared to others, I can understand why he took a liking to such a
strange hat, especially on a very tall man.
Here in South East Michigan, we have a Abraham Lincoln Museum. The
Link below is pictures from that museum and should give you something
worthwhile to look at.
I've read the Cooper Union address, and unlike his other speeches
directed to the common people, I needed to go to my dictionary on
several occasions to learn the meaning of words that he used. It's a
powerful speech and reflects a reasoning that he learned from one of his
law partners. I agreed completely with his comments on the Dred Scott
case and see this as the one issue that brought the Republican Party to
power, first in Congress and then with his election. Instead of
strengthening Slavery and abolishing all the efforts to contain slavery,
the decision brought about it's abolishment.
I recently finished "Team of Rivals" that covers Lincoln's life from
his nomination for President through his funeral in Washington.
I'm currently reading "Abraham Lincoln" by Benjamin Thomas.

Rich Wagner
http://community.webtv.net/Item4U/

[Whistler]

Post by Old Movie Fan
Since Lincoln's profession did require a certain
amount of paperwork when compared to others, I
can understand why he took a liking to such a strange
hat, especially on a very tall man.
Here in South East Michigan, we have a Abraham
Lincoln Museum. The Link below is pictures from
that museum and should give you something worthwhile
to look at.

Good stuff in that museum. Does it have the original
Stovepipe hat? Where exactly is it?...

Post by Old Movie Fan
I've read the Cooper Union address, and unlike his
other speeches directed to the common people, I
needed to go to my dictionary on several occasions to
learn the meaning of words that he used. It's a
powerful speech and reflects a reasoning that he
learned from one of his law partners.

That would be his longtime law partner William H.
Herndon, who was so close to Lincoln, the opposition
press dubbed him "Lincoln's man Friday".
While drafting the CU address, Lincoln worked untold
hours researching, referencing and quoting from
historical record to show how the original '39' framers
of the Constitution intended to cut short the expansion
of slavery.

Post by Old Movie Fan
I agreed completely with his comments on the Dred
Scott case

Lincoln, wisely, stayed away from being looked upon as
a strict abolutionist, which would take away much needed
southern voters to win the presidency. Thusly, in the CU
address he condemned the Dred Scott decision as a
"misinterpetation" of what the original framers of the
Constitution meant in regards to the expansion of slavery.
All the while while drafting the CU address, the height of
the John Brown trouble and trial was underway, and felt
compelled to distance himself from the insurrectionists, as
a part of his campaign platform.

Post by Old Movie Fan
and see this as the one issue that brought the
Republican Party to power, first in Congress and
then with his election. Instead of strengthening
Slavery and abolishing all the efforts to contain slavery,

Well, the Scott decision was a watershed event which
galvanized antislavery sentiment, but I wouldn't say it was
that issue alone that brought about the Lincoln's
Republican party.

Post by Old Movie Fan
the decision brought about it's abolishment.

Well, there was an entire Civil War to be fought
before the issue was decided...

[b***@aol.com]

� Good stuff in that museum. Does it have the original
Stovepipe hat? Where exactly is it?...

Beats me. If it was there, I would have had it in the website.

� I've read the Cooper Union address, and unlike his
other speeches directed to the common people, I
needed to go to my dictionary on several occasions to
learn the meaning of words that he used. �It's a
powerful speech and reflects a reasoning that he
learned from one of his law partners.

� That would be his longtime law partner William H.
Herndon, who was so close to Lincoln.

I don't agree.

The partner that I was thinking about was Stephen T. Logan who
came before in 1941. Here's a quote from "Abraham Lincoln" by
Benjamin Thomas:
"The association with Logan became one of the most constructive
influences on Lincoln's life, for Logan would not tolerate haphazard
methods. Methodical, industrious, painstaking and precise, he
grounded himself in precedents and method." Further on it states:
"Lincoln became more studious and painstaking under Logan's
tutelage."
As for William H. Herndon, the junior partner receives little
credit in this author's account, which instead paints a picture of a
man filled with contradictions who, "never learned to systematize his
thoughts."

When I read the Cooper Union Speech, I see a carefully crafted,
step by step examination of the issues. that I can only credit to
Logan, since it was not Lincoln's approach prior to their
partnership.

� Well, the Scott decision was a watershed event which
galvanized antislavery sentiment, but I wouldn't say it was
that issue alone that brought about the Lincoln's
Republican party.

the decision brought about it's abolishment.

� Well, there was an entire Civil War to be fought
before the issue was decided...

If you put that last clip back in contex, you'll see that what I
said actually includes your point even if not mentioned.
Here's another illustration of how the Scott decision galvanized
the Republican Party and others opposed to the extension of slavery
into the entire country.

[b***@aol.com]

Continued from previous posting (I hit a hot key that sent the message
before I completed it:

In the spring of 1857, Northern States held secession meeting to
discuss having the 'Free States' leave the Union because of the Dred
Scott decision. They were ready to break the country in two, just
three years before it happened.

Like you learn in church, "The devil meant it for evil, but
something good came about as a result. Of course that 'good' came at
a dear price, and would probably have never happened if the final cost
was realized beforehand. We would never allow such a conflict today
in my opinion. The Civil War and the long lapse of democracy during
Recnstruction is a sad, sad time in American History.

I'm enjoying this exchange, and welcome your comments about Billy
Herndon, Lincoln's junior partner.

Rich Wagner (switching to aol since I cannot cut & paste at webtv)

[Whistler]

Post by b***@aol.com
The partner that I was thinking about was Stephen
T. Logan who came before in 1941.

What I'm talking about here, is the law partner who
was with Lincoln while he was drafting his Cooper
Union address, pryor to February 27, 1860, (most
of 1859) at the Springfield Illinois lawfirm of Lincoln-
Herndon, where they were law partners since 1841.
Stephen T. Logan served as Abraham Lincoln's
law partner in Springfield from 1841 to 1843. Upon
dissolving his partnership with Logan, Lincoln began
his own arrangement, now as senior partner, with
William H. Herndon.
Herndon, was not only present while the address
was being drafted, but helped out while Lincoln
prepared the text for the Lincoln-Douglass debates
which were soon to be published. Herndon, after
Lincoln's assassination, went on to become one of
Lincoln's most important biographers and gave
detailed information about their years together that
would have been otherwise lost to history...

[Whistler]

Post by b***@aol.com
The partner that I was thinking about was Stephen
T. Logan who came before in 1941.

What I'm talking about here, is the law partner who
was with Lincoln while he was drafting his Cooper
Union address, pryor to February 27, 1860, (most
of 1859) at the Springfield Illinois lawfirm of Lincoln-
Herndon, where they were law partners since 1843.
Stephen T. Logan served as Abraham Lincoln's
law partner in Springfield from 1841 to 1843. Upon
dissolving his partnership with Logan, Lincoln began
his own arrangement, now as senior partner, with
William H. Herndon.
Herndon, was not only present while the address
was being drafted, but helped out while Lincoln
prepared the text for the Lincoln-Douglass debates
which were soon to be published. Herndon, after
Lincoln's assassination, went on to become one of
Lincoln's most important biographers and gave
detailed information about their years together that
would have been otherwise lost to history...

[Whistler]

Post by b***@aol.com
Here's another illustration of how the Scott decision
galvanized the Republican Party and others opposed
to the extension of slavery into the entire country.
In the spring of 1857, Northern States held secession
meeting to discuss having the 'Free States' leave the
Union because of the Dred Scott decision. They were
ready to break the country in two, just three years
before it happened.

Yes, Dred Scott was a big ralling point for the anti-
slavery folks. That plus the pro-slavery violence in the
Kansas Territory, John Brown's raids and subsequent
agitations along with a sense that southern politics were
getting the best of the slavery issue. (Supreme Court
Chief Justice Roger Tainey heading a pro southern, pro-
slavery bench) Another big factor that is often overlooked
is the economic problem of northerners, who were
becoming industralized, and unionized, had strong
objections to slave labor undercutting the value of their
wages, along with the impact that freed slaves coming
north to take away jobs from northern whites. Even
among northern racists, slavery was seen as an evil that
threatened their pocketbooks.
All this had a galvanizing effect on the northern anti-
slavery forces, and pushed the issue to a head with
Lincoln's election...

[b***@aol.com]

Post by Whistler
John Brown's raids and subsequent
agitations along with a sense that southern politics were
getting the best of the slavery issue.

I liked how Lincoln dismissed any idea that John Brown's actions
reflected him being a Republican. Lincoln insisted that he was not!

Rich Wagner

[Whistler]

Post by b***@aol.com
I liked how Lincoln dismissed any idea that John
Brown's actions reflected him being a Republican.
Lincoln insisted that he was not!

Any right thinking middle-of-the-road candidate who
wanted to appeal to the broadest constituancy would
have to condemn John brown. He was not just an
insurrectionist, but an anarchist, a terrorist, and cold
blooded murderer...